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Post by Agent Kev on Jul 24, 2004 20:51:33 GMT -5
Show starts off with a special Parking Lot edition of Good Times...Great Memories~!
The New Carnage Crew vs. Dunn & Marcos
Fun little opener here. Typical D&M stuff with CC looking good as a team. Sad thing is I like Masada and Danny Daniels better than the real Carnage Crew. Too bad they are no longer together.
Next: Homicide comes out and destroys 4 "Do or Die" guys and 1 gal.
Jimmy Jacobs vs. HC Loc vs. Rainman vs. Delirious vs. Matt Sydal vs. Caprice Coleman (Six Man Mayhem)
This was a fun little match with Coleman being the star IMO. Sydal and Delirious looked real good as well and Rainman looked impressive in hitting his power moves against the smaller opponents when he got in his offense. Overall, I'm starting to like these 6-man matches better but have still yet to be blown away by one.
Alex Shelley, Roderick Strong, & Austin Aries vs. Matt Stryker, Jimmy Rave, & John Walters
REALLY good stuff here. GenNext attacks and bloodies Stryker which leads to GenNext vs. Rave/Walters but Stryker comes back to help out his buddies. Really tight tag-work by GenNext as they cut the ring in half and dissect Jimmy Rave. Great drama and really solid action here. The GenNext 6-man and 8-man matches I have seen leave me thirsting for more. Great finish as Rave has Strong in the crossface but Aries takes out Rave with a 450 and then locks him in the Rings of Saturn for the finish.
Hydro vs. Superstar Steve vs. Ray Gordy vs. Chad Collyer
Only about a minute and a half of this match was shown. What was shown looked pretty good. Gordy hit a brutal Tiger suplex on Lethal and Lethal ended up submitting Collyer with a nice move. Would have loved to have seen more. Steve wasn't even in the ring during what was shown.
More to come....
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Post by IWSfan4life on Jul 24, 2004 22:28:40 GMT -5
Again, another good review of the show so far, that makes me wanna pick it up.
-Jason Burke
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AndyKaid
NWA Champion
Member of Sweet & Sour International
Posts: 662
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Post by AndyKaid on Jul 25, 2004 0:59:45 GMT -5
Hey Kev, since you've seen both on tape, do you think the GenNext vs. ROH guys 6 man was better than the 8 man?
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Post by Agent Kev on Jul 25, 2004 7:52:02 GMT -5
Hey Kev, since you've seen both on tape, do you think the GenNext vs. ROH guys 6 man was better than the 8 man? I thought the 8-man was better. The 6-man was good but was only about 15 minutes. The 8-man was very long and was quite good throughout. |
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Post by Agent Kev on Jul 25, 2004 10:54:16 GMT -5
ROH Title: Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk
I thought this was quite good. It is definitely a MOTYC but it is probably a second-tier MOTYC and not a frontrunner. I think this match had tremendous psychology and was really a daring match for ROH to try. Why was it daring? For one Samoa Joe's title matches usually last 15 minutes tops. This match goes 60. Also, you have to factor in the Dayton crowd which is not a home base for ROH (they are a good crowd but it was hard to say how they would react to a 60-minute singles match). That being said it came off very well and the fans (while not rabid) were in-tune with the match.
I liken this match to a 1980s heavyweight title match. In fact, the first 30 minutes or so reminded me heavily of the Steamboat/Flair matches of the past based on the way it was paced and the interaction between the two wrestlers (which makes sense since Steamer has been in ROH recently and has probably been giving advice). It seemed to me that Punk took the Flair role in this match (and honestly I think Punk could be a good Flair-esque champ. Not in the same character but in the same way Flair was the man to beat and also made his opponents look great). I thought this was also by far Mark Nulty's best single-match performance as an announcer. He did a tremendous job linking the match to a heavyweight boxing match and drew the comparison to Foreman vs. Ali (this is where Ali came in as the underdog and used his speed and took a duck and move offensive approach against the bigger Foreman. Which also came back to the strategy and psychology of Punk using an approach to try and beat Joe that nobody had tried before). Nulty also did a good job of getting over a point I had already had in my head. This is like a 1980s title match. Although he compared it to matches from Harley Race, Jack Brisco and Dory Funk (he did later make the link to Flair/Steamer in saying that he hadn't seen a match go 60-minutes since Flair/Steamer). Nulty does a solid job in getting you to feel the pain of the wrestlers and getting you into what they are going thru in the ring (much like CM Punk or Steve Corino can do when they are announcing-when they want to).
Another point in this match is that it really shows the diversity of Joe as a champ (especially if you watch his cage match versus Jay Briscoe and then this match). Many see him as a one-dimensional wrestler who relies on power moves to win his matches. However, in this match he proves that he has the stamina and heart to not only win a race but to also come out on top in a marathon.
The other point in this match is that Punk is legitamately seen as Joe's equal throughout the contest. So, in the world of indy wrestling where very few men are draws I wonder if by booking this match to be a 60-minute draw that ROH can create this match to be a draw for them down the road. Will fans pay to see a re-match between Punk and Joe more than they would a normal Joe title defense? Can ROH turn this match/fued into a draw. That's a huge question that will really answer the question of how good this match really was.
Ultimate Endurance: Maff/Whitmer vs. Briscoes vs. Aries/Evans vs. Steel/Cabana
First Fall: Submission match. Overall a fun start to the tag-match in which all 3 teams systematically destroy Jack Evans. Evans does a great job bumping to their sadistic offense.
Second Fall: Scramble. Really quick second fall in which the action is fast and furious. Maff and Whitmer take out the Briscoes with a Doomsday Device/Shining Wizard combo. Great booking IMO to set up Maff/Whitmer vs. Steel/Cabana in the finals as this match-up goes back to their 1/10/04 6-man war in Ohio between SCS and Prophecy.
Third Fall: Anything Goes. Solid ending here that probably went a little too long but had a really good sustained brawl with both teams throughout the match that travelled throughout the building. SICK finish as Whitmer hits Ace with an exploder off the top thru a table and then Maff NAILS Cabana with a Burning Hammer on the remnants of the table.
Overall Thoughts: I liked this show a lot and would definitely recommend picking it up for the World Title Match, Tag-Team Endurance and the NextGen 6-man. The downpart of this show is that it probably has the fewest number of matches on any ROH event (which is why I ranked it so low as a complete show).
Updated ROH 2004 Show Rankings:
1. 2nd Year Anniversary (must-see)
2. Generation Next (need-to-see)
3. ROH Reborn Stage Two (need-to-see)
4. The Battle Lines are Drawn (need-to-see)
5. ROH Reborn Stage One (good to see)
6. World Title Classic (good to see)
7. Round Robin Challenge III (good to see)
8. At Our Best (good to see)
9. The Last Stand (good to see)
Next Up: Survival of the Fittest~!
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Post by IWSfan4life on Jul 25, 2004 16:37:01 GMT -5
Good review, but alot of sites had the main event as a disappointment because it was TOO slowed down and methodical. Would you say it was that way, and if so, was it the overall story that kept you involved or something else.
Sounds like a good one, but I don't think i'm gonna pick it up as i have to save, and I still have "Gen Next" coming and am getting "Reborn Completion" really soon.
-Jason Burke
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Post by Agent Kev on Jul 25, 2004 16:40:29 GMT -5
Good review, but alot of sites had the main event as a disappointment because it was TOO slowed down and methodical. Would you say it was that way, and if so, was it the overall story that kept you involved or something else. I think the placement of the Main Event was wrong. If you are going to have a match that goes one hour then THAT needs to be your Main Event. I thought going into the Main Event that it would be too long but I don't think it was. The first two falls came pretty quick and alot of the action in the third fall took place outside the ring. The third fall was long but in the context of the story/fued it needed to be (since Maff/Whitmer were going after revenge from the Jan show). Overall it was a good match but if you are looking for your ME to be the best match on the show then yes it was disappointing. |
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Post by IWSfan4life on Jul 25, 2004 16:43:37 GMT -5
Oh no actually I did mean Joe/Punk, and not the UE match. I just rearranged them. That question about being too slow and too long and why you were into it was dirrected at the Joe/Punk match.
But I also like what i'm hearing of the UE match as well.
-Jason Burke
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Post by Agent Kev on Jul 25, 2004 19:39:46 GMT -5
Oh no actually I did mean Joe/Punk, and not the UE match. I just rearranged them. That question about being too slow and too long and why you were into it was dirrected at the Joe/Punk match. I don't think it was too slow or too long but it was sixty minutes. And however you look at it sixty minutes is a long time for a wrestling match. I liken the pace to a Steamboat/Flair match-up which IMO had a methodical pace. For fans of short-attention span theatre I'm sure they will hate this match. For fans that are able to watch the entire match and let the story play out in front of their eyes then they will enjoy it. |
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Post by IWSfan4life on Jul 27, 2004 20:49:55 GMT -5
Well, I LOVED the Hero/Punk match from One More Time for every second of it. In fact, I like it more and more every time I think about it. Granted, Joe is not quite the athlete with the endurance of Hero, but if it's anything similar i'll have to see it.
-Jason Burke
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Post by Voltage XX on Jul 31, 2004 22:43:10 GMT -5
I just watched it last night..or the night before...or something, I don't even remember, but I think I ended up enjoying it more than I was expecting, and I had pretty high hopes. I finished the show this afternoon but unfortunately fell asleep during the final fall of Ultimate Endurance off and on, but did see the absolutely BRUTAL finish Kev mentioned. That was just flat-out awesome.
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